Issue 10139: Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes (bpmn-ftf) Source: (Dr. Francis G. McCabe, frankmccabe(at)me.com) Nature: Uncategorized Issue Severity: Summary: Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind information (input and output sets) but not messages. Resolution: Revised Text: Actions taken: August 24, 2006: received issue Discussion: Defer: While the Issue may be valid, it represents potentially significant modifications. Thus, this Issue will be deferred and handled by work on a later version of BPMN. Any changes made for this version may potentially conflict with later modifications. End of Annotations:===== m: Francis McCabe Subject: BPMN issue Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:03:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= X-Language-Identified: TRUE Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF242 April 21, 2006 From: Stephen A White Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:25:37 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM690/03/M/IBM(Release 7.0.2HF32 | October 17, 2006) at 01/22/2007 16:25:36, Serialize complete at 01/22/2007 16:25:36 This is intended for Ballot 6 Note that there are two resolutions to choose from. Issue 10139: Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes Description: Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind information (input and output sets) but not messages Suggested Resolution 1: Resolved: The capability for identifying the Messages that are used in a Re-Usable Process, without knowing the details of that Process, is important enough to add in Version 1.1, rather than wait until Version 2.0. This will be realized through the addition of a Messages attribute for the Process element. This is a list of all the Messages used by activities or Events in the Process. This will make it possible to know the Messages used in the Process without know the details of the Process. These Messages can then be used for binding to the Message Flow of the Parent Process. Revised Text: Section 8.6.1 "Attribute," Table 8.7, page 30 and Section B.2, Table B.2, "Process Attributes", page 242: a) Add following row after the "Properties" row (and after the new "OutputSets" row): Messages (0-n) : Message The Messages attribute provides a list of all Messages that used by activities and/or Events of the Process. Zero or more Messages MAY be defined. This list will allow modeling tools to access the Messages of a black-box Sub-Process so that they can be associated with Message Flow of a Parent Process. Further details about the definition of a Message can be found in Section B.11.8, .Message,. on page XXX. Suggested Resolution 2: Defer: While the Issue may be valid, it represents potentially significant modifications. Thus, this Issue will be deferred and handled by work on a later version of BPMN. Any changes made for this version may potentially conflict with later modifications. Revised Text: None Subject: RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:29:17 -0600 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 Thread-Index: Acc+fMgizoWQCTGERE2Gn27WEBBz1gAfgi7w From: "Cummins, Fred A" To: "Stephen A White" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2007 14:29:17.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCF7C540:01C73EFA] Steve, I support resolution #2, defer. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen A White [mailto:wstephe@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:26 PM To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 This is intended for Ballot 6 Note that there are two resolutions to choose from. Issue 10139: Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes Description: Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind information (input and output sets) but not messages Suggested Resolution 1: Resolved: The capability for identifying the Messages that are used in a Re-Usable Process, without knowing the details of that Process, is important enough to add in Version 1.1, rather than wait until Version 2.0. This will be realized through the addition of a Messages attribute for the Process element. This is a list of all the Messages used by activities or Events in the Process. This will make it possible to know the Messages used in the Process without know the details of the Process. These Messages can then be used for binding to the Message Flow of the Parent Process. Revised Text: Section 8.6.1 "Attribute," Table 8.7, page 30 and Section B.2, Table B.2, "Process Attributes", page 242: a) Add following row after the "Properties" row (and after the new "OutputSets" row): Messages (0-n) : Message The Messages attribute provides a list of all Messages that used by activities and/or Events of the Process. Zero or more Messages MAY be defined. This list will allow modeling tools to access the Messages of a black-box Sub-Process so that they can be associated with Message Flow of a Parent Process. Further details about the definition of a Message can be found in Section B.11.8, .Message,. on page XXX. Suggested Resolution 2: Defer: While the Issue may be valid, it represents potentially significant modifications. Thus, this Issue will be deferred and handled by work on a later version of BPMN. Any changes made for this version may potentially conflict with later modifications. Revised Text: None To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF242 April 21, 2006 From: Stephen A White Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:52:35 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM690/03/M/IBM(Release 7.0.2HF32 | October 17, 2006) at 01/25/2007 12:52:36, Serialize complete at 01/25/2007 12:52:36 Most of the resposes seem to be to defer the issue. I'd like to hear from more of the FTF as well. I believe that the issue is with scope for V1.1, but a reason to defer would be to wait for a more comprehensive way of dealing with process interfaces (expected in V2.0 when BPDM is merged with BPMN). However, given the amount of time it is taking to do V1.1, and the general pace of standardization processes, it will probably be a while before V2.0 will be finished. Thus, we should consider that deferring the issue will leave the spec without any such capability until V2.0. The non-deferring resolution will at least give us some capability that will hold us for the next couple of years. -Steve Stephen A White/Irvine/IBM 01/24/2007 01:38 PM To bpmn-ftf@omg.org cc Subject RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139Link It will make the voting on the ballot much easier if we have only one recommended solution. Please review and respond to this item. If we can get some consensus before the ballot starts, that would be very helpful. Thanks. -Steve "Cummins, Fred A" 01/23/2007 06:29 AM To Stephen A White/Irvine/IBM@IBMUS, cc Subject RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 Steve, I support resolution #2, defer. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen A White [mailto:wstephe@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:26 PM To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 This is intended for Ballot 6 Note that there are two resolutions to choose from. Issue 10139: Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes Description: Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind information (input and output sets) but not messages Suggested Resolution 1: Resolved: The capability for identifying the Messages that are used in a Re-Usable Process, without knowing the details of that Process, is important enough to add in Version 1.1, rather than wait until Version 2.0. This will be realized through the addition of a Messages attribute for the Process element. This is a list of all the Messages used by activities or Events in the Process. This will make it possible to know the Messages used in the Process without know the details of the Process. These Messages can then be used for binding to the Message Flow of the Parent Process. Revised Text: Section 8.6.1 "Attribute," Table 8.7, page 30 and Section B.2, Table B.2, "Process Attributes", page 242: a) Add following row after the "Properties" row (and after the new "OutputSets" row): Messages (0-n) : Message The Messages attribute provides a list of all Messages that used by activities and/or Events of the Process. Zero or more Messages MAY be defined. This list will allow modeling tools to access the Messages of a black-box Sub-Process so that they can be associated with Message Flow of a Parent Process. Further details about the definition of a Message can be found in Section B.11.8, .Message,. on page XXX. Suggested Resolution 2: Defer: While the Issue may be valid, it represents potentially significant modifications. Thus, this Issue will be deferred and handled by work on a later version of BPMN. Any changes made for this version may potentially conflict with later modifications. Revised Text: None To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF242 April 21, 2006 From: Stephen A White Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 11:52:46 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM690/03/M/IBM(Release 7.0.2HF32 | October 17, 2006) at 01/30/2007 12:52:45, Serialize complete at 01/30/2007 12:52:45 I haven't heard from anyone else on this topic and the plan is to start the ballot voting on Friday. We will discuss this on the conference call on Thursday, but if you cannot make the call, then please send in your opinion before then. Thanks. -Steve Stephen A White/Irvine/IBM@IBMUS 01/25/2007 11:52 AM To bpmn-ftf@omg.org cc Subject RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 Most of the responses seem to be to defer the issue. I'd like to hear from more of the FTF as well. I believe that the issue is with scope for V1.1, but a reason to defer would be to wait for a more comprehensive way of dealing with process interfaces (expected in V2.0 when BPDM is merged with BPMN). However, given the amount of time it is taking to do V1.1, and the general pace of standardization processes, it will probably be a while before V2.0 will be finished. Thus, we should consider that deferring the issue will leave the spec without any such capability until V2.0. The non-deferring resolution will at least give us some capability that will hold us for the next couple of years. -Steve Stephen A White/Irvine/IBM 01/24/2007 01:38 PM To bpmn-ftf@omg.org cc Subject RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139Link It will make the voting on the ballot much easier if we have only one recommended solution. Please review and respond to this item. If we can get some consensus before the ballot starts, that would be very helpful. Thanks. -Steve "Cummins, Fred A" 01/23/2007 06:29 AM To Stephen A White/Irvine/IBM@IBMUS, cc Subject RE: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 Steve, I support resolution #2, defer. Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen A White [mailto:wstephe@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:26 PM To: bpmn-ftf@omg.org Subject: Proposed Resolution for Issue 10139 This is intended for Ballot 6 Note that there are two resolutions to choose from. Issue 10139: Message flows in and out of independent sub-processes Description: Where an activity represents an invocation of an independent subprocess, the spec does not state how to bin any incoming and outgoing message flows to the sub-process. It does state how to bind information (input and output sets) but not messages Suggested Resolution 1: Resolved: The capability for identifying the Messages that are used in a Re-Usable Process, without knowing the details of that Process, is important enough to add in Version 1.1, rather than wait until Version 2.0. This will be realized through the addition of a Messages attribute for the Process element. This is a list of all the Messages used by activities or Events in the Process. This will make it possible to know the Messages used in the Process without know the details of the Process. These Messages can then be used for binding to the Message Flow of the Parent Process. Revised Text: Section 8.6.1 "Attribute," Table 8.7, page 30 and Section B.2, Table B.2, "Process Attributes", page 242: a) Add following row after the "Properties" row (and after the new "OutputSets" row): Messages (0-n) : Message The Messages attribute provides a list of all Messages that used by activities and/or Events of the Process. Zero or more Messages MAY be defined. This list will allow modeling tools to access the Messages of a black-box Sub-Process so that they can be associated with Message Flow of a Parent Process. Further details about the definition of a Message can be found in Section B.11.8, .Message,. on page XXX. Suggested Resolution 2: Defer: While the Issue may be valid, it represents potentially significant modifications. Thus, this Issue will be deferred and handled by work on a later version of BPMN. Any changes made for this version may potentially conflict with later modifications. Revised Text: None information (input and output sets) but not messages.