Issue 17120: Addition of derived property notation (sysml-rtf) Source: INCOSE (Mr. Sanford A. Friedenthal, safriedenthal(at)gmail.com) Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor Summary: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Resolution: Revised Text: Actions taken: February 9, 2012: received issue Discussion: End of Annotations:===== m: webmaster@omg.org To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue X-KeepSent: 8642C84E:DBD62D9B-8825799F:0077856D; type=4; name=$KeepSent To: sysml-rtf@omg.org X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.5.2FP1 SHF163 March 17, 2011 From: Fredrick A Steiner Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 13:47:08 -0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ES2-MSG01/SRV/Raytheon(Release 8.5.2FP2|March 22, 2011) at 02/09/2012 13:47:03 I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:x-mailer:thread-index:content-language; bh=pMaP5kuJo9NrMHCoR/qp5ga9NIJdrewcIJFL2T/M2PQ=; b=j/p6VUNITYz2EN+U5Hjn1KBZD2XYJmgYAeR/RzbrrqMajc8nOz46snrapKd9kOrWDw duysR9RwoOxHAOKKjC+oZUQroLgXTG10HwXsMvw4C22TNkgz/UIfdj3qNp3SozfWaKSy 6VUaJBZmP/57W4g2H62z65c4Hx+NZ06YAt1Es= From: "Sanford Friedenthal" To: "'Fredrick A Steiner'" , Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:27:31 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AczndHmlxTQS3xQkSqmKu5A1QY4PogBwcNhw Yes. Thx. From: Fredrick A Steiner [mailto:fsteiner@raytheon.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:47 PM To: sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org From: Burkhart Roger M To: Sanford Friedenthal , "'Fredrick A Steiner'" , "sysml-rtf@omg.org" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:56:31 -0600 Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Topic: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Index: AczndHmlxTQS3xQkSqmKu5A1QY4PogBwcNhwAE4xSUA= Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_03:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_03:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Sandy and Rick-- The first edition of the "A Practical Guide to SysML" book had the "/" derived notation both on properties of a Trade-off block on a bdd in Figure 17.17 and on the same value properties shown on an ibd in Figure 17.18. On the new issue 17120, I'd like to clarify that it is not the case, as stated by the issue, that "The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored." Derived property notation never appeared the diagram elements tables or in any SysML diagrams, either in the original SysML submission or in any subsequent revision. During the SysML 1.0 FTF, I submitted issue 10381 specifically to consider which of several elements of UML notation should be considered for SysML. I put forward a draft resolution that included static features, derivation on properties, and visibility indicators, and got pushback that resulted in a poll being taken on the mailing list, and only the static notation being included in the final 1.0 resolution of this issue. There's a full record of all this discussion on the FTF mailing list archive maintained by OMG. The stated plan clear back in the 1.0 FTF was to reraise this issue after 1.0 was completed. From my last message (on (Feb. 11, 2007) about this resolution to the 1.0 mailing list, "For issue 10381, I removed the example notations for the "/" derived properties and visibility characters "+" "-" "#" "~" based on the email discussion. Since there is still some suggestion that they be included in SysML, new issues to consider their inclusion in future SysML versions should be raised by anyone who would like to see them included." Now that a new issue has been raised, I would suggest that any resolutions for derived properties also address Issue 13348, "Inability to represent dependent, independent parameters on constraint properties" and 15003, "Do parametric bindings observe derived and read-only properties." In the original FTF discusssion, Russell Peak specifically asked if derived properties might be an appropriate way to represent dependent parameters in constraint blocks. Also, if an eventual resolution for Issue 15075 ("Including Property Notation for Redefinition and Subsetting") adds the subsetting notation, that would also assume a resolution for 17120, since subsetting goes hand-in-hand with derived unions, even though these unions are not mentioned directly by 15075. --Roger From: Sanford Friedenthal [mailto:safriedenthal@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:28 PM To: 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Yes. Thx. From: Fredrick A Steiner [mailto:fsteiner@raytheon.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:47 PM To: sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:21:29 +0000 From: "Chonoles, Michael J" Subject: RE: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue X-Originating-IP: [158.186.156.92] To: Burkhart Roger M , Sanford Friedenthal , "'Fredrick A Steiner'" , "sysml-rtf@omg.org" Thread-Topic: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Index: AQHM6nmuig3YMdrQ+EO7uIwS8wMgzpY7KvnA Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_04:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Though it is true that the / derived notation has not be used in SysML diagram examples, it was a reasonable assumption that it was part of SysML 1) No explicit prohibiting 2) Use of / all over the place in describing SysML elements 3) Use in diagrams (that describe stereotypes) Even though we don.t have Profile diagrams explicitly in SysML (we should, of course), we do seem to allow profile definitions using package diagrams. However, the examples that we use that define stereotypes all use the / to indicate derived elements. A limitation of not having / would then prohibit defining similar stereotypes in profiles of SysML. Is an additional issue? Michael From: Burkhart Roger M [mailto:BurkhartRogerM@JohnDeere.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:57 PM To: Sanford Friedenthal; 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Ex: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Sandy and Rick-- The first edition of the "A Practical Guide to SysML" book had the "/" derived notation both on properties of a Trade-off block on a bdd in Figure 17.17 and on the same value properties shown on an ibd in Figure 17.18. On the new issue 17120, I'd like to clarify that it is not the case, as stated by the issue, that "The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored." Derived property notation never appeared the diagram elements tables or in any SysML diagrams, either in the original SysML submission or in any subsequent revision. During the SysML 1.0 FTF, I submitted issue 10381 specifically to consider which of several elements of UML notation should be considered for SysML. I put forward a draft resolution that inclu ded static features, derivation on properties, and visibility indicators, and got pushback that resulted in a poll being taken on the mailing list, and only the static notation being included in the final 1.0 resolution of this issue. There's a full record of all this discussion on the FTF mailing list archive maintained by OMG. The stated plan clear back in the 1.0 FTF was to reraise this issue after 1.0 was completed. From my last message (on (Feb. 11, 2007) about this resolution to the 1.0 mailing list, "For issue 10381, I removed the example notations for the "/" derived properties and visibility characters "+" "-" "#" "~" based on the email discussion. Since there is still some suggestion that they be inclu ded in SysML, new issues to consider their inclusion in future SysML versions should be raised by anyone who would like to see them included." Now that a new issue has been raised, I would suggest that any resolutions for derived properties also address Issue 13348, "Inability to represent dependent, independent parameters on constraint properties" and 15003, "Do parametric bindings observe derived and read-only properties." In the original FTF discusssion, Russell Peak specifically asked if derived properties might be an appropriate way to represent dependent parameters in constraint blocks. Also, if an eventual resolution for Issue 15075 ("Including Property Notation for Redefinition and Subsetting") adds the subsetting notation , that would also assume a resolution for 17120, since subsetting goes hand-in-hand with derived unions, even though these unions are not mentioned directly by 15075. --Roger From: Sanford Friedenthal [mailto:safriedenthal@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:28 PM To: 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Yes. Thx. From: Fredrick A Steiner [mailto:fsteiner@raytheon.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:47 PM To: sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org From: Burkhart Roger M To: "Chonoles, Michael J" , "sysml-rtf@omg.org" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:47:18 -0600 Subject: FW: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Topic: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Index: AQHM6nmuig3YMdrQ+EO7uIwS8wMgzpY7KvnAgAAPMXCAAB9/EIAAAzJQ Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_04:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_04:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Michael-- Profiles (even those for SysML) are defined using UML metamodel notations, not SysML user models and diagrams. Yes, UML & MOF metamodels commonly use derived notations all over, and SysML stereotypes are extensions of base UML metaclasses. The only examples of user-defined profiles in SysML are in Chapter 17, "Profiles and Model Libraries." The few examples there don't use any derived notation. All other stereotype definitions in the SysML spec are part of the SysML profile and extend the UML metamodel. The issue raised by the SysML 1.0 FTF was whether the derived notation, along with visibility indicators as raised by the same issue, had specific SE applications to justify including in the base SysML language. One of the comments in the 1.0 FTF poll was, "I would agree with not including them since these notions stems from software engineering practices and I cannot figure out the meaning in a SE context." However you answer this question (on both derivation and visibility), the fact that there was a specific 1.0 FTF issue raised and resolved, as fully recorded by the process, overrides any other default assumption. My own message back then, as I quoted below, specifically suggested that the issue on derivation should be reraised. Since Sandy has reraised the issue, I don't think we need any additional issue. I think it's important to be clear that nothing had ever been included in SysML and then later removed. The same is true of the +-#~ notations for visibility which are also so far excluded by SysML, and which I haven't yet heard any request for reconsideration. I have personal opinions on both sides of the derived notation issue, but I won't bring them up here in these messages about process. --Roger From: Chonoles, Michael J [mailto:michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:21 PM To: Burkhart Roger M; Sanford Friedenthal; 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Though it is true that the / derived notation has not be used in SysML diagram examples, it was a reasonable assumption that it was part of SysML 1) No explicit prohibiting 2) Use of / all over the place in describing SysML elements 3) Use in diagrams (that describe stereotypes) Even though we don.t have Profile diagrams explicitly in SysML (we should, of course), we do seem to allow profile definitions using package diagrams. However, the examples that we use that define stereotypes all use the / to indicate derived elements. A limitation of not having / would then prohibit defining similar stereotypes in profiles of SysML. Is an additional issue? Michael From: Burkhart Roger M [mailto:BurkhartRogerM@JohnDeere.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:57 PM To: Sanford Friedenthal; 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Ex: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Sandy and Rick-- The first edition of the "A Practical Guide to SysML" book had the "/" derived notation both on properties of a Trade-off block on a bdd in Figure 17.17 and on the same value properties shown on an ibd in Figure 17.18. On the new issue 17120, I'd like to clarify that it is not the case, as stated by the issue, that "The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored." Derived property notation never appeared the diagram elements tables or in any SysML diagrams, either in the original SysML submission or in any subsequent revision. During the SysML 1.0 FTF, I submitted issue 10381 specifically to consider which of several elements of UML notation should be considered for SysML. I put forward a draft resolution that inclu ded static features, derivation on properties, and visibility indicators, and got pushback that resulted in a poll being taken on the mailing list, and only the static notation being included in the final 1.0 resolution of this issue. There's a full record of all this discussion on the FTF mailing list archive maintained by OMG. The stated plan clear back in the 1.0 FTF was to reraise this issue after 1.0 was completed. From my last message (on (Feb. 11, 2007) about this resolution to the 1.0 mailing list, "For issue 10381, I removed the example notations for the "/" derived properties and visibility characters "+" "-" "#" "~" based on the email discussion. Since there is still some suggestion that they be inclu ded in SysML, new issues to consider their inclusion in future SysML versions should be raised by anyone who would like to see them included." Now that a new issue has been raised, I would suggest that any resolutions for derived properties also address Issue 13348, "Inability to represent dependent, independent parameters on constraint properties" and 15003, "Do parametric bindings observe derived and read-only properties." In the original FTF discusssion, Russell Peak specifically asked if derived properties might be an appropriate way to represent dependent parameters in constraint blocks. Also, if an eventual resolution for Issue 15075 ("Including Property Notation for Redefinition and Subsetting") adds the subsetting notation , that would also assume a resolution for 17120, since subsetting goes hand-in-hand with derived unions, even though these unions are not mentioned directly by 15075. --Roger From: Sanford Friedenthal [mailto:safriedenthal@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:28 PM To: 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Yes. Thx. From: Fredrick A Steiner [mailto:fsteiner@raytheon.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:47 PM To: sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:16:16 +0000 From: "Chonoles, Michael J" Subject: RE: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue X-Originating-IP: [158.186.156.92] To: "sysml-rtf@omg.org" Thread-Topic: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Thread-Index: AQHM6nmuig3YMdrQ+EO7uIwS8wMgzpY7KvnAgAAPMXCAAB9/EIAACOewgAACdjA= Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7361,1.0.260,0.0.0000 definitions=2012-02-13_05:2012-02-13,2012-02-13,1970-01-01 signatures=0 I understand that they were never in. My message was addressing why people might have thought they were. Michael From: Burkhart Roger M [mailto:BurkhartRogerM@JohnDeere.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 4:36 PM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: sysm-rtf@omg.org Subject: Ex: RE: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Michael-- Profiles (even those for SysML) are defined using UML metamodel notations, not SysML user models and diagrams. Yes, UML & MOF metamodels commonly use derived notations all over, and SysML stereotypes are extensions of base UML metaclasses. The only examples of user-defined profiles in SysML are in Chapter 17, "Profiles and Model Libraries." The few examples there don't use any derived notation. All other stereotype definitions in the SysML spec are part of the SysML profile and extend the UML metamodel. The issue raised by the SysML 1.0 FTF was whether the derived notation, along with visibility indicators as raised by the same issue, had specific SE applications to justify including in the base SysML language. One of the comments in the 1.0 FTF poll was, "I would agree with not including them since these notions stems from software engineering practices and I cannot figure out the meaning in a SE context." However you answer this question (on both derivation and visibility), the fact that there was a specific 1.0 FTF issue raised and resolved, as fully recorded by the process, overrides any other default assumption. My own message back then, as I quoted below, specifically suggested that the issue on derivation should be reraised. Since Sandy has reraised the issue, I don't think we need any additional issue. I think it's important to be clear that nothing had ever been included in SysML and then later removed. The same is true of the +-#~ notations for visibility which are also so far excluded by SysML, and which I haven't yet heard any request for reconsiderati on. I have personal opinions on both sides of the derived notation issue, but I won't bring them up here in these messages about process. --Roger From: Chonoles, Michael J [mailto:michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:21 PM To: Burkhart Roger M; Sanford Friedenthal; 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Though it is true that the / derived notation has not be used in SysML diagram examples, it was a reasonable assumption that it was part of SysML 1) No explicit prohibiting 2) Use of / all over the place in describing SysML elements 3) Use in diagrams (that describe stereotypes) Even though we don.t have Profile diagrams explicitly in SysML (we should, of course), we do seem to allow profile definitions using package diagrams. However, the examples that we use that define stereotypes all use the / to indicate derived elements. A limitation of not having / would then prohibit defining similar stereotypes in profiles of SysML. Is an additional issue? Michael From: Burkhart Roger M [mailto:BurkhartRogerM@JohnDeere.com] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:57 PM To: Sanford Friedenthal; 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Ex: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Sandy and Rick-- The first edition of the "A Practical Guide to SysML" book had the "/" derived notation both on properties of a Trade-off block on a bdd in Figure 17.17 and on the same value properties shown on an ibd in Figure 17.18. On the new issue 17120, I'd like to clarify that it is not the case, as stated by the issue, that "The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored." Derived property notation never appeared the diagram elements tables or in any SysML diagrams, either in the original SysML submission or in any subsequent revision. During the SysML 1.0 FTF, I submitted issue 10381 specifically to consider which of several elements of UML notation should be considered for SysML. I put forward a draft resolution that inclu ded static features, derivation on properties, and visibility indicators, and got pushback that resulted in a poll being taken on the mailing list, and only the static notation being included in the final 1.0 resolution of this issue. There's a full record of all this discussion on the FTF mailing list archive maint ained by OMG. The stated plan clear back in the 1.0 FTF was to reraise this issue after 1.0 was completed. From my last message (on (Feb. 11, 2007) about this resolution to the 1.0 mailing list, "For issue 10381, I removed the example notations for the "/" derived properties and visibility characters "+" "-" "#" "~" based on the email discussion. Since there is still some suggestion that they be inclu ded in SysML, new issues to consider their inclusion in future SysML versions should be raised by anyone who would like to see them included." Now that a new issue has been raised, I would suggest that any resolutions for derived properties also address Issue 13348, "Inability to represent dependent, independent parameters on constraint properties" and 15003, "Do parametric bindings observe derived and read-only properties." In the original FTF discusssion, Russell Peak specifically asked if derived properties might be an appropriate way to represent dependent parameters in constraint blocks. Also, if an eventual resolution for Issue 15075 ("Including Property Notation for Redefinition and Subsetting") adds the subsetting notation , that would also assume a resolution for 17120, since subsetting goes hand-in-hand with derived unions, even though these unions are not mentioned directly by 15075. --Roger From: Sanford Friedenthal [mailto:safriedenthal@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:28 PM To: 'Fredrick A Steiner'; sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: RE: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue Yes. Thx. From: Fredrick A Steiner [mailto:fsteiner@raytheon.com] Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:47 PM To: sysml-rtf@omg.org Subject: Fw: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue I believe Sandy meant "Figure 7.21", which is on pate 141. Cheers, -Rick Rick Steiner Raytheon Technology Networks 858.522.2008 (desk) 619.200.9467 (cell) Raytheon Certified Architect ----- Forwarded by Fredrick A Steiner/RWS/Raytheon/US on 02/09/2012 01:45 PM ----- From: Juergen Boldt To: issues@omg.org, sysml-rtf@omg.org Date: 02/09/2012 01:37 PM Subject: issue 17120 -- SysML RTF issue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: webmaster@omg.org Date: 09 Feb 2012 15:47:24 -0500 To: Subject: Issue/Bug Report ******************************************************************************* Name: Sanford Friedenthal Employer: mailFrom: safriedenthal@gmail.com Terms_Agreement: I agree Specification: OMG Systems Modeling Language Section: 8.2.1 FormalNumber: ptc/2011-08-09 Version: 1.3 Doc_Year: 2011 Doc_Month: September Doc_Day: Day Page: 30 Title: Addition of derived property notation Nature: Clarification Severity: Minor CODE: 3TMw8 B1: Report Issue Description: The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML". Best regards, -Juergen Juergen Boldt Director, Member Services 140 Kendrick Street, Building A Suite 300 Needham, MA 02494 USA Tel: 781 444 0404 x 132 fax: 781 444 0320 www.omg.org The derived property notation was originally included in SysML and removed. This notation is very helpful and should be restored. An example of how this is used can be found in Figure 7.2.1 of the 2nd edition of "A Practical Guide to SysML".