Issue 17266: color of the notation is specified (uml2-rtf) Source: Lockheed Martin (Mr. Michael Jesse Chonoles, michael_chonoles2(at)omg.org) Nature: Uncategorized Issue Severity: Summary: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to “solid” or “filled with the line color” and change “white” to “hollow” or “un-filled”. For grey/gray it should be “a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow” Resolution: Revised Text: Actions taken: March 20, 2012: received issue Discussion: End of Annotations:===== m: "Chonoles, Michael J" Subject: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) To: "uml-spec-simplification@omg.org ...snip... "issue@omg.org" Cc: "Watson, John" In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com From: Bran Selic Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) To: "Chonoles, Michael J" Cc: "uml-spec-simplification@omg.org ...snip... John" If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image009.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: a2095ac36abaa701_0.3 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image008.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: a2095ac36abaa701_0.2 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image007.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: a2095ac36abaa701_0.1 From: Steve Cook To: Bran Selic , ...snip... Subject: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) Well, I would think of a diagram with a black background and white lines as a valid UML diagram, in which case the composition diamond should be filled with white. I think .filled with the line color. as Michael suggested avoids the problem you are referring to, while also permitting some additional flexibility. -- Steve From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: 20 March 2012 19:23 To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com From: Matthew Hause To: Bran Selic , ...snip... Subject: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) One would also think there is a minimum set of requirements for a modeling tool that should include these sorts of things. A tool that cannot at least do black, white and some shade of gray really has less than the minimum required functionality. You may as well use an etch a sketch. From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:23 PM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com From: "Chonoles, Michael J" Subject: RE: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) To: Matthew Hause , Bran Selic Cc: "uml-spec-simplification@omg.org ...snip... John" No, I would expect to see the fill for solid items to be always the same as the line color. But disallowing this, would prevent the old Rational Rose from being compliant, which used maroon for the fill. And on PowerPoint presentations, you.d really want the fill to be the same color as the line color vs the backgrounds. For example, on a dark background, where the text and lines are all white, the .black. fill would generally be .white.. This improves readability under all circumstances. It just gives more readability in some circumstances. (Dark background presentations are recommended for some room/projector settings). From: Matthew Hause [mailto:matthew.hause@atego.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:17 AM To: Bran Selic; Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Ex: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) One would also think there is a minimum set of requirements for a modeling tool that should include these sorts of things. A tool that cannot at least do black, white and some shade of gray really has less than the minimum required functionality. You may as well use an etch a sketch. From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:23 PM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com From: Bran Selic Subject: Re: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) To: "Chonoles, Michael J" Cc: Matthew Hause , ...snip... John" For the record, just a historical anecdote prompted by Michael's response: Rational Rose NEVER tried to be compliant with the standard and rather arrogantly proud of it. (I recall when they tried to change the "*" multiplicity to "n".) They felt that they set the standard and that the OMG stuff was irrelevant. Thankfully, the folks who worked on RSA were more humble. Cheers...Bran On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: No, I would expect to see the fill for solid items to be always the same as the line color. But disallowing this, would prevent the old Rational Rose from being compliant, which used maroon for the fill. And on PowerPoint presentations, you.d really want the fill to be the same color as the line color vs the backgrounds. For example, on a dark background, where the text and lines are all white, the .black. fill would generally be .white.. This improves readability under all circumstances. It just gives more readability in some circumstances. (Dark background presentations are recommended for some room/projector settings). From: Matthew Hause [mailto:matthew.hause@atego.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:17 AM To: Bran Selic; Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Ex: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) One would also think there is a minimum set of requirements for a modeling tool that should include these sorts of things. A tool that cannot at least do black, white and some shade of gray really has less than the minimum required functionality. You may as well use an etch a sketch. From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:23 PM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: 50dc83420edbef1e_0.1 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image002.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: 50dc83420edbef1e_0.2 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image003.jpg" Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: 50dc83420edbef1e_0.3 From: "Chonoles, Michael J" Subject: RE: Ex: Re: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) To: Bran Selic Cc: Matthew Hause , ...snip... John" Yes, I have heard that story. Thanks for reminding us of other.s follies, it makes my own seem less serious sometimes. Michael From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:38 AM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: Matthew Hause; uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Ex: Re: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) For the record, just a historical anecdote prompted by Michael's response: Rational Rose NEVER tried to be compliant with the standard and rather arrogantly proud of it. (I recall when they tried to change the "*" multiplicity to "n".) They felt that they set the standard and that the OMG stuff was irrelevant. Thankfully, the folks who worked on RSA were more humble. Cheers...Bran On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: No, I would expect to see the fill for solid items to be always the same as the line color. But disallowing this, would prevent the old Rational Rose from being compliant, which used maroon for the fill. And on PowerPoint presentations, you.d really want the fill to be the same color as the line color vs the backgrounds. For example, on a dark background, where the text and lines are all white, the .black. fill would generally be .white.. This improves readability under all circumstances. It just gives more readability in some circumstances. (Dark background presentations are recommended for some room/projector settings). From: Matthew Hause [mailto:matthew.hause@atego.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:17 AM To: Bran Selic; Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Ex: RE: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) One would also think there is a minimum set of requirements for a modeling tool that should include these sorts of things. A tool that cannot at least do black, white and some shade of gray really has less than the minimum required functionality. You may as well use an etch a sketch. From: bran.selic@gmail.com [mailto:bran.selic@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bran Selic Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:23 PM To: Chonoles, Michael J Cc: uml-spec-simplification@omg.org; uml2-rtf@omg.org; sysml-rtf@omg.org; issue@omg.org; Watson, John Subject: Re: issue again UML 2.4.1 (and later to SysML) If users can specify the fill colour, then they would have the option to specify a white fill for the composition diamond -- boy, would that cause confusion! Ergo, I am not sure this is a good idea. Personally, I think we are fine as it is. I cannot see much user value in allowing users this flexibility, while it does create some potential problems. Cheers...Bran On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Chonoles, Michael J wrote: In the UML spec there are several places where the color of the notation is specified. For example, the composition diamond is specified as black, the state machines junction ball is specified as black, and the lost/found message is specified as black, and the information identifier is a black triangle. Similarly there are few cases where white and grey are specified. This is overly limiting, some tools use a solid color for the items specified as black, or let the user select the color (usually selecting the same as the line color). It would not be good to limit the representation to only black color, as that would invalidate most PowerPoint and several tools. Please change the color black to .solid. or .filled with the line color. and change .white. to .hollow. or .un-filled.. For grey/gray it should be .a distinguishable value between the solid and the hollow. Michael l Michael Jesse Chonoles Principal Member of Engineering Staff LM co-POC to OMG / coChair OMG ADTF Lockheed Martin, MS2 Moorestown, NJ 08057 199 Borton Landing Road, Bldg 780, 2nd Fl, C408 Telephones: Work 856-359-1383 Cell: 267-315-2410 Home and Work 610-644-8404 Fax: 215-790-2976 Co-author: UML 2 For Dummies michael.j.chonoles@lmco.com mjchonoles@yahoo.com