Issue 1985: Elapsed Time since 10/15/1582 (issues) Source: (, ) Nature: Uncategorized Issue Severity: Summary: Summary: Questions: Is there a formula to determine the amount of elapsed time >since 10/15/1582 as specified in the TimeService Specification? > >After finding that September of 1752 only has 19 days and >a few different interpretations of leap year rules, I believe >there is some ambiguity as to what should be placed in a >TimeBase::Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. > Resolution: Revised Text: Actions taken: September 22, 1998: received issue September 30, 1998: closed issue Discussion: :Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. End of Annotations:===== Return-Path: X-Sender: soley@emerald.omg.org Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:50:36 -0400 To: dacharley@att.com From: Richard Mark Soley Subject: Re: Elapsed time since 10/15/1582 Cc: experts@omg.org, issues@omg.org You seem to be reporting a bug (so I have cc'ed issues@omg.org, where suspected bugs are reported). This is definitely not my area of expertise, although I do know that there are indeed days missing from several years due to calendar changes. -- Richard Soley At 02:25 PM 9/22/98 -0400, dacharley@att.com wrote: >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:25:12 EDT 1998: 152.28271484375 >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:26:11 EDT 1998: 508.36181640625 >Name: David Charley >From: dacharley@att.com >Questions: Is there a formula to determine the amount of elapsed time >since 10/15/1582 as specified in the TimeService Specification? > >After finding that September of 1752 only has 19 days and >a few different interpretations of leap year rules, I believe >there is some ambiguity as to what should be placed in a >TimeBase::Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. > > Return-Path: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:25:38 -0400 From: Ken Geisinger Organization: Concept 5 Technologies To: Richard Mark Soley CC: dacharley@att.com, experts@omg.org, issues@omg.org Subject: Re: Elapsed time since 10/15/1582 References: <3.0.3.32.19980922165036.00785f68@emerald.omg.org> There were no changes to the calendar since its adoption by the Vatican on October 15, 1582 (Pope Gregory XIII), thus the official start of the Gregorian Calendar. September 11th (I believe), 1752 is the date that the British Government imposed the "new" calendar on the American Colonies. The calendar "gained" 11 days since they were "off" by that amount. I don't know the date that the Gregorian Calendar was officially adopted in the United Kingdom. Richard Mark Soley wrote: > > You seem to be reporting a bug (so I have cc'ed issues@omg.org, > where > suspected bugs are reported). > > This is definitely not my area of expertise, although I do know that > there > are indeed days missing from several years due to calendar changes. > > -- Richard Soley > > At 02:25 PM 9/22/98 -0400, dacharley@att.com wrote: > >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:25:12 EDT 1998: 152.28271484375 > >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:26:11 EDT 1998: 508.36181640625 > >Name: David Charley > >From: dacharley@att.com > >Questions: Is there a formula to determine the amount of elapsed > time > >since 10/15/1582 as specified in the TimeService Specification? > > > >After finding that September of 1752 only has 19 days and > >a few different interpretations of leap year rules, I believe > >there is some ambiguity as to what should be placed in a > >TimeBase::Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. > > > > -- --------------------------------- | The opinions expressed above Ken Geisinger | are my own and not necessarily Sr. Software Integration Engineer | those of the company to which Concept Five Technologies, Inc. | I am employed. --------------------------------- | Return-Path: Sender: jis@fpk.hp.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:45:29 -0400 From: Jishnu Mukerji Organization: Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Laboratories To: Richard Mark Soley Cc: dacharley@att.com, experts@omg.org, issues@omg.org Subject: Re: Elapsed time since 10/15/1582 References: <3.0.3.32.19980922165036.00785f68@emerald.omg.org> Richard Mark Soley wrote: > > You seem to be reporting a bug (so I have cc'ed issues@omg.org, > where > suspected bugs are reported). > > This is definitely not my area of expertise, although I do know that > there > are indeed days missing from several years due to calendar changes. > > -- Richard Soley > > At 02:25 PM 9/22/98 -0400, dacharley@att.com wrote: > >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:25:12 EDT 1998: 152.28271484375 > >Key: Tue Sep 22 14:26:11 EDT 1998: 508.36181640625 > >Name: David Charley > >From: dacharley@att.com > >Questions: Is there a formula to determine the amount of elapsed > time > >since 10/15/1582 as specified in the TimeService Specification? > > > >After finding that September of 1752 only has 19 days and > >a few different interpretations of leap year rules, I believe > >there is some ambiguity as to what should be placed in a > >TimeBase::Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. A good place to start to look for an answer that would be consistent with the intent of (many of) the submitters would be to check what DCE Distributed Time Service does for computing absolute time. The intent of (many of) the then submitters was to make the OMG one the same as the DCE one as I recall. Since the prototype implementation that the proposal was based on used DCE DTS underneath, we did not bother exploring this detail, and simply used wording from the DCE DTS. Jishnu. -- Jishnu Mukerji Systems Architect Advanced Development Enterprise Internet Solution Center Enterprise Systems Group Email: jis@fpk.hp.com Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Labs, Tel: +1 973 443 7528 300 Campus Drive, 2E-62, Fax: +1 973 443 7422 Florham Park, NJ 07932, USA. Return-Path: Sender: jis@fpk.hp.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:16:14 -0400 From: Jishnu Mukerji Organization: Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Laboratories To: Ken Geisinger Cc: Richard Mark Soley , dacharley@att.com, experts@omg.org, issues@omg.org Subject: Re: Elapsed time since 10/15/1582 References: <3.0.3.32.19980922165036.00785f68@emerald.omg.org> <360815D2.1EB07517@concept5.com> Ken Geisinger wrote: > > There were no changes to the calendar since its adoption by the > Vatican > on October 15, 1582 (Pope Gregory XIII), thus the official start of > the > Gregorian Calendar. September 11th (I believe), 1752 is the date > that > the British Government imposed the "new" calendar on the American > Colonies. The calendar "gained" 11 days since they were "off" by > that > amount. I don't know the date that the Gregorian Calendar was > officially > adopted in the United Kingdom. > -- > --------------------------------- | The opinions expressed above > Ken Geisinger | are my own and not necessarily > Sr. Software Integration Engineer | those of the company to which > Concept Five Technologies, Inc. | I am employed. > --------------------------------- | Thank you Ken, for jogging my memory. I seemed to recall having answered that question once before but did not remember the answer. You are absolutely right, the time is always calculated according to the Gregorian Calendar and not according to when the Americans were imposed upon by the British to use the Gregorian calendar or any other such. I just took a look at the DCE code and it agrees with what Ken says. If you have to convert a date in the USA that falls between October 15 1582 (Greg) and Sept 11(?) 1752 (Greg) then if the date is given in the non-Gregorian American calendar of that era, then first convert the date to Gregorian calendar and then convert to absolute time. A quick glance through the Time Service Chapter suggests that this could be clarified a little by incorporating the following text: Section 14.2.2 page 14-7 subsection titled "Type TimeT": 1) In the last sentence append the phrase "of the Gregorian Calendar". 2) Append the following sentence to this section: "All absolute time shall be computed using dates from the Gregorian Calendar." [Richard - is this editorial or does it take an RTF to do this?] -------- Bottom line is that it should be the same algorithm as used by DCE DTS, and several other absolute time standards that are based on the start date of the Gregorian Calendar. Jishnu. -- Jishnu Mukerji Systems Architect Advanced Development Enterprise Internet Solution Center Enterprise Systems Group Email: jis@fpk.hp.com Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Labs, Tel: +1 973 443 7528 300 Campus Drive, 2E-62, Fax: +1 973 443 7422 Florham Park, NJ 07932, USA. Return-Path: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:58:09 -0400 From: Jishnu Mukerji Reply-To: jis@fpk.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Laboratories To: Juergen Boldt Cc: issues@omg.org Subject: Re: issue 1985 Time srevice....not assigned to RTF yet References: <3.0.32.19980930111720.009f2a90@emerald.omg.org> All absolute time is to be calculated using the Gregorian Calendar. Note to this effect is being editorially added to the TimeT section. This effectively answers the question raised, and also closes this issue. Jishnu. Juergen Boldt wrote: > This is issue # 1985 > > Elapsed Time since 10/15/1582 > > Questions: Is there a formula to determine the amount of elapsed time > >since 10/15/1582 as specified in the TimeService Specification? > > > >After finding that September of 1752 only has 19 days and > >a few different interpretations of leap year rules, I believe > >there is some ambiguity as to what should be placed in a > >TimeBase::Utc time value to represent a specific date/time. > > > > ================================================================ > > Juergen Boldt > Senior Member of Technical Staff > > Object Management Group Tel. +1-508-820 4300 ext. 132 > Framingham Corporate Center Fax: +1-508-820 4303 > 492 Old Connecticut Path Email: juergen@omg.org > Framingham, MA 01701 > > ================================================================ Return-Path: Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:44:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rick H. Wesson" To: dacharley@att.com cc: soley@omg.org, experts@omg.org, issues@omg.org Subject: Re: Elapsed time since 10/15/1582 I saw that someone was looking how to convert the epoch for the CosTimeService on the omg's web site.... i asked the question to the usenet newsgroup com.protocols.time.ntp, i kept a reply in the header of my impl. i hope it helps, if you find it incorrect please let me know. -rick /** * CosTime Implementation * * $Author: wessorh $ * $Date: 1998/09/23 05:04:06 $ * $Id: CosTime_impl.h,v 1.1 1998/09/23 05:04:06 wessorh Exp $ * * -- * (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: * comp.protocols.time.ntp) * * >I gather that CORBA's CosTime service uses a time base that starts at 15 * >October 1582 00:00:00 UTC, and the problem is to convert to POSIX time? * >Why the odd timescale origin? I assume it has some significance. * * Anyway, the easiest way to handle such problems is by use of Julian Day * Numbers: * * 1 January 1970 is JDN 244 0587.500 * * 15 October 1582 is JDN 229 9160.500 * * Their difference is 141,427.000 days, or 387.27 Gregorian years. * * This difference is 24*60*60*141427= 1.221929e10 seconds, being the * difference in seconds between the two timescale origins. Multiply this by * 1/(100e-9)= 10^7 to get the number of 100-nanosecond increments have * passed. * * 12219292800 * (10^7) = 122192928000000000 * * Hope this solves the problem. * * Joe Gwinn * */ -rick