Issue 2736: (sec-rev) Source: (, ) Nature: Severity: Summary: Resolution: Revised Text: Actions taken: June 14, 1999: received issue Discussion: End of Annotations:===== Reply-To: "Jon Farmer" From: "Jon Farmer" To: Subject: issues 2670 and 2736i Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:39:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D8_01BF2487.9D916680" X-UIDL: ='Z!!>,^!!I`Sd9BR To: pids-rtf2@omg.org Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 7:45 PM Subject: Fwd: RE: Need assist >Got a copy of this document from both Bob and Wes. Haven't read it to >see how it addresses the PIDS issues. > >-Mary Received: from stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu ([141.211.83.42]) by ia-01.groupwise.med.umich.edu; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:31 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with X.500 id LAA15814 for mkratz@groupwise.med.umich.edu; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ktazp597.kp.org (ca1-smtp.kp.org [162.119.233.3]) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.5) with ESMTP id LAA15623 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ktazp599.crdc.kp.org ([172.21.128.20]) by ktazp597.kp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10316 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gren-exch-mta.ca.kp.org by ktazp599.crdc.kp.org with ESMTP for mkratz@UMICH.EDU; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:24:18 -0700 Received: by gren-exch-mta.ca.kp.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4TFMKF8L>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:26:10 -0700 Message-Id: <7363612D05B3D211B47600805F3140CB01CFB861@orcy-exch-1.ca.kp.org> From: "Dolin,Robert H" To: "'mkratz@UMICH.EDU'" Subject: RE: Need assist Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:26:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_A3FA861C.4F2ECF6E" Hi Mary, The documentation is a bit in flux because of how much activity is going on in this area. I think the best single source of information right now is the document posted by Wes Rishel to the CQ / XML lists on October 06 in a message entitled "Revised Proposal for Representing HL7 data types and messages". Here's another copy of it just in case: <> This document has an example of an HMD and the corresponding DTD, but does not go into the details of how you get from the RIM to the HMD. For more on that, the best document is the HL7 Message Development Framework (http://www.mcis.duke.edu/standards/HL7/committees/methodology-modeling/MDf9 9april5.doc) (which was published in April, so is a bit out of date) Next Monday, 10/25, I'll post a first draft set of PRA Document DTDs to the KEG listserver. It will contain a detailed HMD along with the DTD and a sample message. Please note though that these will be first draft, and will need to be bantered about by the KEG before we'd post them more broadly, but the KEG is a public list. Take care, Bob > ---------- > From: Mary Kratz[SMTP:mkratz@UMICH.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:57 PM > To: cq@lists.hl7.org; sgml@lists.hl7.org > Cc: pids-rtf2@omg.org > Subject: Need assist > > <> > Can somebody point to exactly where (URL?) to look for rules by > which > DTD constructs > are derived from RIM abstract datatypes. > > Thanks, > Mary > [] v3dt.zip [] Mary Kratz.vcf Reply-To: "Jon Farmer" From: "Jon Farmer" To: "Santosh Gandhi" , Subject: Issue 2736: Complex or Sequence of Traits Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:06:17 -0500 Organization: Care Data Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-UIDL: V@Ce9%S/e9i(!!!ViLe9 Hi Santosh and others, Santosh - Sicne it is Monday of OMG week and I may be the only one of us not in Cambridge yet, I took the liberty of drafting some resolution text for this issue: You were/are going to do this, so please feel free todiscard this if yours is already in progress: ========= additional para for summary Within the general issue of how to support complex of sequence of traits, there is a more specific issue of how to support multiple instances of the same predefined HL7 2.3 trait type. For example, the HL7 2.3 spec provides for repeatability of several of its elements including Patient Name. Unless these traits are allowed to repeat, there cannot be "lossless" bidirectional interoperation with HL7. To the extent that the PIDS is in this respect cannot interoperate bidirectionally without data loss with its largest preexisting healthcare standard, it needs "fixing" ====== Resolution Since the current PIDS spec types the trait as an ANY, both complex and sequenced traits are already "mechanically supported" but not standardized. Therefore interoperability by local agreement is already supported. Even though a vastly better interoperability would ensue if the PID spec could standardize on a fully HL7- and.or ANSI- compliant set of DTDs, the standards in these two bodies are still works-in-process; therefore any present move in this direction would be premature and destined for early obsolescence. We therefore propose that for purposes of the present PIDS RTF2 cycle, we provide for sequencing of those HL7 2.3 PIDS segement traits which are allowed to repeat in HL7 (conversion of typedef strings to sequences for the applicable traits), but we would defer (to later RFP or RTF) the larger issues of PIDS-standard DTDs. Reply-To: "Jon Farmer" From: "Jon Farmer" To: "pids-rtf2" Subject: Fw: relationship to PMF Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:12:07 -0500 Organization: Care Data Systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-UIDL: #3*e9Vo@!!Ve4e9Jk!"! Hey everyone Below is an issue for issue 2736 complex of sequence of traits. We could either allow certain traits to repeat by making them a sequence of string, or else we could delimit them within the existing string type. Since the document is already out for the poll, please specify your comments explicitly on this issue in your repsonse to the poll. That is, pease state which you would prefer and state why. thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Jon Farmer Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 1:41 PM Subject: Re: relationship to PMF > > > Please do broadcast - HL7 triats already need parsing - HL7/PATIENT_NAME in > the HL7 format (of data type PN ) is > family name^given name^middle^name^suffix^prefix^degree. > > > > > > "Jon Farmer" on 11/30/99 11:30:48 AM > > Please respond to "Jon Farmer" > > > To: Santosh Gandhi/HI-HealthInfo/3M/US > dwf@lanl.gov > cc: > Subject: Re: relationship to PMF > > > > > If we use our original agreed approach, we would use sequences, and client > and serfver software could use the TCKind operation to discover if it got a > string or a sequence, thereby producing a way to be backward compatible. > > If we use delimited strings then have introduced a parsing requirement, > which we have worked hard to avoid. > > Do you mind if we broadcast the issue as an explicit thread? > Jon > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: Jon Farmer > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 12:50 PM > Subject: Re: relationship to PMF > > > > > > > > Jon I have added them revised text for the repeating fields in the HL7 > > module. Please look it over and see if it makes sense before we broadcast > > to the list. Thanks. > > > > (See attached file: PIDS RTF.doc) > > > > Please correct the spellings of my last name in the document to Gandhi. > > > > > > > > > >